Failure to make innings

[da_big_kid_94]

For those of you who are familiar with my stuff, you will appreciate the irony of this situation. But first - the question, and then the background;

For you Roto leaguers - how do you handle teams that don't make minimum innings at the end of the year?

Back story - 12 team Only 4x4 - 850 IP minimum. 1000 IP minimum proposed 3 years ago - voted down. When 850 was implemented, we ruled that teams failing to make innings would receive zero for both ERA and Ratio. However, we also decided that their placement in those two categories would stand - as a deterrent to possible collusion ("Hey, I'll come up short on innings and you'll move up" - that sort of temptation).

Now - the zero for ERA and Ratio is the only penalty these teams face - so, if they've already thrown in the towel on the year? Big deal ...still can't finish lower than twelfth. Next year - slate's wiped clean. Now I myself lobbied for it this way ... and I believed in it ... but this year has proven to me that I was wrong in that thinking. So, I'm looking for imput as to how other leagues handle this situation.

The irony - the person I'm having the argument with is my brother, the commissioner. So it is not dissimilar to arguing with myself.

[Todd Zola]

From the Tout Wars Constitution

Code: Select all

Each team is required to attain a minimum of 950 innings pitched in order to qualify for placement in the pitching categories of Baserunners Ratio and Earned Run Average, and a minimum of 4,200 At Bats for placement in the category of Batting Average. If these minimum levels of playing time are not achieved, the team will receive 1 standings point in those categories affected no matter where they finish. Every other team that meets the minimum requirements will receive their normal standings points (Category standings will not be artificially adjusted to accommodate a team that falls short of a playing time requirement.)

From the NFBC rules

Code: Select all

There is a 700 innings pitched minimum requirement for all NFBC leagues, including the auction leagues, but no minimum requirement for number of starting pitchers or relief pitchers on each roster. Should any team not reach the required limit of 700 innings pitched by the end of the season, the rankings will be altered to show that team getting 1 point in both ERA and WHIP. No other teams will switch positions in the standings, but the team that didn't reach the minimum IP will automatically earn 1 point in ERA and WHIP.

From a private league (I'm not the commissioner)

Code: Select all

B. Innings minimum/maximum.
1. Teams must finish the season with a minimum of 1,100 innings pitched. Any team finishing the season with innings pitched less than 1,100 is disqualified from the final standings and cannot win any prize money that year, though they maintain their positions in the standings for purposes of determining rank and points for other teams. 

These leagues are all 5x5 -- personally, I do not see a need to a minimum in 5x5, but that's moot since Kid asked about a 4x4 league.

[da_big_kid_94]

Thank you very much for the information. I do have one question - is the third league league you alluded to an auction keeper league? I know the first two are not.

[Todd Zola]

yes, third is auction keeper with daily trannies, also has an IP maximum but there the team just stops getting pitching stats at 1500 IP - no penalty for going over

[viper]

My auction league have a similar penalty. Note that they all give zero and not one point. I think one also imposes a $10 fine.

[da_big_kid_94]

Thank you all for the replies ...you have given me food for thought. I did leave out what I believe to be a few pertinent points. I did this because I did not want to unduly influence the responses;

• As stated, this is 4x4 - which I believe you will see is important.
• The league is an auction keeper league - top 5 places pay out - let's just say first is four digits and the second digit is higher than 5.
• This year, the teams that are ranked 1st, 3rd and 4th in Ratio and 2nd and 4th in ERA are currently behind the minimum and only one of those teams is currently on pace to make 850 IP

The reason I brought the point up is that some of these teams may not care if they make innings or not - they aren't going to finish in the money and, as I stated earlier, you can't finish lower than 12th. But the teams that went through the trouble of making innings are now chasing an artificial barrier - a total that shouldn't count because those teams get no score for their totals - and it is much easier to generate a low ERA and Ratio total if they don't care if they're going to make the minimum - so, this year, it is quite possible that the team with the second best qualifying Ratio will get a maximum of 8 points.

Originally , I though this was the correct thing to do - leave the place holder, zero out the points - but the more I look at it, the more I think this favors an uneven playing field. The guys who qualify under minimum innings are now in the unfortunate (but predictable) position of being behind totals that DON'T qualify (because they threw so many fewer innings, it is not unreasonable to expect their ERA and Ratio totals to be better, due to the smaller sampling size). I'm thinking there is something wrong with handling things this way - but not as strongly as I did prior to starting this thread.

Oh, BTW - one of the teams is the current league leader. As of today, he needs to pick up 230 more innings in 6 weeks... and today was the first time all season he made a change to his pitching lineup.

[Hambowen]

How did this end up working out?

[realdealrulz]

I am interested too. I could be mistaken, but sounds to me like thats an easy out for higher draft selection strategy?

[viper]

I am curious too. You cannot start a thread like this and fail to give us the conclusion.

[da_big_kid_94]

The final results, along with the events leading up to them:

Team in first place as of the date of my initial posting (also in 1st place in Ratio and second in ERA) made 5 pitching moves between 8/23 and 9/7 (weekly xactions) after not making a single pitching move prior to that. After activating Hudson and Kuroda, trading for Nolacso and FAAB'ing Mujica and Fulchino, he wound up with with a total of 909 IP - qualified - BUT - got caught in stolen bases the last week of the season (had to trade Dex Fowler for Nolasco, then saw Nyjer Morgan go down) - finished 2nd.

Team that finished 4th in Ratio did NOT make innings. The team that finished BEHIND him in Ratio finished the season in 4th place - one half point behind third, one point behind second and two points out of first. The 4th place team would have been awarded 2nd place on our tie breaker system. Net/Net? That one point cost the 4th place team $500.00.

I know this is an isolated incident, but after looking at it, I think I have to move to do something about this. I've already notified the owners about gathering ideas about this - and lest anyone think there is another agenda present here, all I will say is "Look to the blue".

[da_big_kid_94]

I am interested too. I could be mistaken, but sounds to me like thats an easy out for higher draft selection strategy?

It doesn't apply here ... it's an auction league with an Ultra style reserve draft.... and the draft order is 6-7-8-9-10-11-12-5-4-3-2-1 ... so if you finish last - you get 7th pick each round, not 1st.

[Trav The Ump]

Hey Kid,

Trav, resurfacing again after having disappeared for some time. Read through the entire thread. As you may or may not recall other than being 5x5 instead of 4x4 our leagues are very close in resemblance. I've been commish now for 6 years I think, year about 15 of the league. This has only happened once. In our league, failure to reach 900ip drops you to 1pt in each category but the corresponding teams move up. The team in question was I believe 1st and 2nd in Whip and ERA meaning that other than one point which luckily didn't affect anything everyone moved up 2 points unanimously.

I like this way because I have actually seen the opposite effect occur, we had a team in about 8th in ERA not going to make it and the team in 4th (our top 4 pays) had to trade him some IP's because 5th would have gotten points in ERA and WHIP where 4th wouldn't. This reminds me of when the Yanks grabbed Canseco off waivers just to prevent the Bo Sox from getting him.

Hopefully you can find a good middle ground, I'd say in a heavy money league which this seems to be a solid fine is in order.

[da_big_kid_94]

Hey Kid,

Trav, resurfacing again after having disappeared for some time. Read through the entire thread. As you may or may not recall other than being 5x5 instead of 4x4 our leagues are very close in resemblance. I've been commish now for 6 years I think, year about 15 of the league. This has only happened once. In our league, failure to reach 900ip drops you to 1pt in each category but the corresponding teams move up. The team in question was I believe 1st and 2nd in Whip and ERA meaning that other than one point which luckily didn't affect anything everyone moved up 2 points unanimously.

I like this way because I have actually seen the opposite effect occur, we had a team in about 8th in ERA not going to make it and the team in 4th (our top 4 pays) had to trade him some IP's because 5th would have gotten points in ERA and WHIP where 4th wouldn't. This reminds me of when the Yanks grabbed Canseco off waivers just to prevent the Bo Sox from getting him.

Hopefully you can find a good middle ground, I'd say in a heavy money league which this seems to be a solid fine is in order.

Trav ....welcome home, sir. Our league drops you to 0 points in ERA and Ratio if you don't make innings. I racked my brains trying to come up with what I thought was a fair remedy, and for the life of me , I couldn't do it.. Moving the teams behind over the teams who didn't make innings in the standings was something I couldn't come to without weighting the problem/remedy towards one side or the other. So, in a very unscientific manner, we're going to let it slide this year and hope last year's potential problems was just an anomaly.

Slowly, all the chickens are coming home to roost .... ohhhh Schildkroooottteeee.... and bring Doc Woody back wit ya!