First time doing Tiers

[maxdad007]

This is the first time I decided to try and set up a tier system as my draft prep. Its a point based H2H league, with C,1B,2B,3B,SS,3 x OF,2 x UT and 7 P. I will be posting my tiers in a format as when I pick who would I take. So my 1st tier has the 1st 9 players I would take (since I pick 9th.) then my 2nd tier is the next 7 players I would take and so on. My 1st tier has the following players:

Cano, Robinson 2B NYY
Youkilis, Kevin 1B BOS
Hernandez, Felix SP SEA
Choo, Shin-Soo RF CLE
Cruz, Nelson RF TEX
Dunn, Adam 1B CHW
Uggla, Dan 2B ATL
Sabathia, CC SP NYY
Reyes, Jose SS NYM

1st question, would you tier it differently? Would you put these players in a different order?

[Todd Zola]

The idea of a tier is all the players are the same value and you take the ones based of what positions you already have and what positions you think you can get later undervalued.

[maxdad007]

So instead of grouping them by draft pick I would group them by value. Its not an auction, so I can really use dollar value, so I should use round value instead?

[Todd Zola]

My point is there is no such thing as "round value", though we are likely talking semantics.

In a draft, the numerical unit to rank is indeed arbitrary. It is just easiest to carry over the dollar value used for auctions since it is already done.

[deansdaddy]

Max - your example is an example of what I would call "scripting" your draft.

When you use tiers - you do so by looking at the entire inventory of the draft. Prior to the draft you can try to identify pockets of value, or positions you need to draft early and others you can draft late. As the draft progresses and players get crossed off your positional tiers, it can help you further identify where new pockets of value may be occurring as well as inform you when you need to move on a position. Often this means changing the "script" that you may have come into the draft with. Tiers are a more fluid device and can help you execute many different scenarios you may imagine.

For example say I am drafting 7th and Todd 8th.

I take Cano in Rd 1 and Todd takes Youkilis in rd 2. I could go on like this, but I hope you get the point. Try as we like - we can't script a draft. We can however use tiers to help us know when to wait and when to pick one position over another. Sometimes you have your mind set on Cano and Carlos Gonzalez falls into your lap.

There is more to discuss here - but the first step is to understand that what you were describing isn't using tiers.

Gotta run - but this is good - I'm sure there are others who can benefit from discussing this. I just benefited from trying to explain it to you

[maxdad007]

That is why I come here. If I don't get it, someone will help try and explain it to me. Should I maybe look at projected points and group players accordingly based off of what positions I need? If it helps I can post some of the players and their projections.

[Todd Zola]

That is why I come here. If I don't get it, someone will help try and explain it to me. Should I maybe look at projected points and group players accordingly based off of what positions I need? If it helps I can post some of the players and their projections.

If this is a points based league, this is a GREAT idea.

If you look at the tiers we have, instead of the colored blocks for dollar values, I would have each block represent a points distribution, but I would be sure to adjust it for "useful" points, a concept we discuss here all the time.

Do you know how to make the positional adjustments from raw points to useful points?

[maxdad007]

Would that be the difference from the top players projected points to the bottom players projected points?

[Todd Zola]

Would that be the difference from the top players projected points to the bottom players projected points?

to quote Perry...

Eggsactly

If your scoring system favors pitchers, then ALL pitchers are favored and you want to adjust.

Halladay could project to 350 points while Pujols could project to 325. But if the last drafted pitcher projects to 150 and the last drafted hitter to 100, then Halladay's adjusted points are 350-150 = 200 while Pujols is 325-100 = 225.

[maxdad007]

Also I believe that your guy's draft kit is usually geared towards roto, would it be able to be converted to a points base league?

[maxdad007]

So to find the difference how far down do you go to find the "last player". For example in the OF we start 3, but we also have 2 UT spots which would probably be filled by mostly 1B and OF. So would you say the top 50 or so?

[Todd Zola]

Also I believe that your guy's draft kit is usually geared towards roto, would it be able to be converted to a points base league?

Yes, and there is a primer somewhere on how to do this, I can dig it up. But if you are good with Excel and know how to enter formulas into cells, I can post the procedure here as it is straightforward.

[Todd Zola]

So to find the difference how far down do you go to find the "last player". For example in the OF we start 3, but we also have 2 UT spots which would probably be filled by mostly 1B and OF. So would you say the top 50 or so?

If you have the time and/or patience, the "best" way to do it is to first put all the position players together. Say you have ten teams and 10 hitters per team for a total of 100 players. Count up how many of each position are in the top-100. You know you need 10-C, 10-1B etc. Chances are, you will be short on catcher and maybe 2B, 3B or SS, maybe not. Any position you are short on, you need to knock players at other positions out of the pool, starting at the bottom.

Say the distribution was

4-C
17-1B
12-2B
11-3B
9-SS
47-OF

You need to add 6 catchers so you start at #100 and take away all non catchers and also non-SS since you can see you are also short there.

Let's say you found 3 OF 1 2B and 2 1B as the bottom 6, your distribution is now

10-C
15-1B
11-2B
11-3B
9-SS
44-O

Then you push someone out for a SS, let's say it is a 1B.

10-C
14-1B
11-2B
11-3B
10-SS
44-O

You use that as the baseline for the adjustments.

[maxdad007]

So is this when I would subtract the top players points from the bottom players points? Would I do that at each individual position or just the overall top 100, as in your example? Also since its a 12 team league would you recommend taking down a little further, like 120 or 150? Im a novice Excel user, so thats what I have been setting everything up on as far as prep goes. Would the draft kit be doing alot of this work for me? I know thats alot of questions and I appreciate everyone's time in answering.

[maxdad007]

Also would you sperate P's from hitters or lump them together?