Teams with badly broken rudders

[da_big_kid_94]

Feel free to add yours and why they qualify. Many of these may already be self evident, but it's nice to see they haven't been able to right the ship as of yet

Our first nominee .. my favorite whipping team ... The Pittsburgh Pirates.

• Release 26 year old Matt Capps (your closer for the last three years) because you are afraid of what he may be awarded in arbitration and watch him sign a one year deal with The Nats for $3.5 million.
• Replace him with 36 year old Octavio Dotel who has had two "successful" seasons closing in his entire career for approximately $500K less than what Capps signed for.

Go Buccos! And may God have mercy on ANY fantasy team with a plethora of Pirates on its roster.

[cwk1963]

Being a Yankee fan there's nothing better than turning the Red Sox (sorry Todd) or Mets (sorry John) into my own personal whipping post. Today, it's the Mets turn. Offer Bengie Molina (who's asking for 3 years) a 2 year contract only to see him sign with SF for 1 year. But that's OK since the Mets have cornered the market on backup catchers .

[JP Kastner]

It's tough for me to pick a whipping boy. The Royals are my usual target. Do they really plan to make an entire team out of utility players? Then again you have the Astros. Same problem.


JP

[da_big_kid_94]

Ah, the Royals! The team that made collecting slow afoot, adequate 1B/DH types at any one time on an active roster into an art form:

• Signed Brian Anderson to an actual, honest-to-God major league contract. Hmmm ...wonder who they were bidding against there, eh?
• Their big off season trade was to get rid of one of their few productive bats in Teahen in return for two players they really needed - 2B Chris Getz and 3B/OF Josh Fields. What's that you say? They already have a guy who didn't do too badly at second last year? Ah, you can't have too many middle infielders ...after all ...only the Royals could afford to roster BOTH Betancourt and Bloomquist simultaneously .. or as the Royals roster is becoming known as ... the site to outsource Mariners middle infielders. And Fields will fill in SOMEWHERE, right? Just slot him right in at third, right? Whoops ..can't do that ... Ozzie found out he really can't play third and besides, you really need to know if Gordon can play the field at all, right? What about the OF? Yeah, that's a possibility ...unless, of course they can't ditch Mr. Warmth's contract in time - and they really weren't too serious about signing both Anderson and Podsednik. Well, good to see they got some value for Teahen

Gotta love Wal-Mart.

Edit: And for giggles, let us add the reportedly just signed Rick Ankiel to the mix!

[aburt19]

Ah, the Royals! The team that made collecting slow afoot, adequate 1B/DH types at any one time on an active roster into an art form:

• Their big off season trade was to get rid of one of their few productive bats in Teahen in return for two players they really needed - 2B Chris Getz and 3B/OF Josh Fields. What's that you say? They already have a guy who didn't do too badly at second last year?

Gotta love Wal-Mart.

Edit: And for giggles, let us add the reportedly just signed Rick Ankiel to the mix!

I agree with most of what you said about the Royals. But I'm from Kansas City and Callaspo is a terrible defensive second
baseman. His range is poor and he doesn't do that well on the balls he gets to. I don't know that Getz is the answer, but
Callaspo defensively is a disaster with messed up double plays. The problem is that he's looked good offensively last
season. Maybe he's going to DH part of the season.

[JP Kastner]

You might find this interesting. Alberto Callaspo was the worst defensive second baseman with a -19 Plus/Minus rating. So, who was the fifth worst in Plus/Minus? Chris Getz at -10.

If you don't know what Plus/Minus is, it is a new defensive metric where a player is judged on the ability to make a play. If the average shortstop would miss a similarly hit ball, the player gets one point. If the average shortstop would, but the fielder doesn't, they get minus 1 point.

Teahen was a -12 third baseman.

[lawr]

well, i would go royals and bucs too, followed by houston. then baltimore to some degree, although they seem to be getting it together. their biggest issue is their division.

i think nothing exemplifies the royals schizo approach more than mike jacobs. i never understood why they traded for him with kiiahue (sp) and ryan sheely (check out his september in 2008 and think, hmmm, did not he at least deserve a chance?)

but, what i really look for in stuff like this, baseball or football, is, "does it seem like this organization has an actual plan?"

in football these days, that team without a plan is the raiders. sheesh. but, royals and bucs are right there.

[da_big_kid_94]

well, i would go royals and bucs too, followed by houston. then baltimore to some degree, although they seem to be getting it together. their biggest issue is their division.

i think nothing exemplifies the royals schizo approach more than mike jacobs. i never understood why they traded for him with kiiahue (sp) and ryan sheely (check out his september in 2008 and think, hmmm, did not he at least deserve a chance?)

but, what i really look for in stuff like this, baseball or football, is, "does it seem like this organization has an actual plan?"

in football these days, that team without a plan is the raiders. sheesh. but, royals and bucs are right there.

Which is why this has an impact on our game, IMHO. It brings to the fore, what I refer to as, the difference between "self-sufficient" players and "team supported" players. Put a self sufficient player most anywhere and you'll get numbers from him. Zack Grienke, off of last season, is a self sufficient ball player - he seems to have reached the level where his stuff will translate regardless of where he plays or who he plays for. But it seems to be that neither KC or Pittsburgh have one other player on either of their rosters of which that statement can be made. Players we select off of either of these teams just aren't very good right now and they really shouldn't be counted on to be significant producers to our rosters. And I will be honest - I'm keeping Teahen (a 14 unit player in an AL only 4x4) as a "Team Supported" player this year because of where he is now. As their teams go, so do they - and until management of these teams get a clue, we really should not be looking for too much productivity from either these teams in terms of fantasy baseball. The Mike Jacobs thing was 1st base redux for the Royals, lawr. Few years ago, we noted the same phenomena with Pickering, Sweeney and Harvey - so they made the same type of mistake twice within a few years of each other.

I was unaware of the Callaspo metric, and I thank J.P. for bringing it up (in fact, if it's not proprietary, I'd love to know the source as well) . Kurkjan made a point on Baseball Tonight this week that it seems many teams are going for defense and small ball over the big bashers (one example being Ozzie's statement on how he'll run the White Sox this year). So, for the old timers, Callaspo = Jorge Orta. Then trade one defensive liability for TWO defensive liabilities. If you are wondering how many saves Dotel is projected to get this year, try asking yourself why you are even asking that question first ...then ask why should you care. Which is why I feel one should take a long hard look before hoping on any Royal or Pirate players this season. Everyone knows they are bad teams ... but they don't seem to be getting any better...and that's not good for us either.

[lawr]

agreed across the board.

and, for sure, filling a third or fourth outfield slot with a david dejesus is just fine, because he is pretty consistant irrespective of who is around them.

but, i always look to cop starters from as many contending teams as i can simply because they play better with that team effect you note. not to mention the opportunities to put up points is greater. and, finally, and most important, they have the best chance of giving a full season of play.

once you have a struggling team, starting time bets go out the window come september, and that is not a good time to lose production.

what is hard for me with the royals is i cut my fantasy teeth playing strat 35 years ago, and the royals, with cowens and patek and leonard and otis and frank white and brett were my team for years. they were so good, too. it is sad to see them so perennially awful now.

[aburt19]

I'm just the opposite. Many times the player on a bad team, like the Royals, will go for less than actual value. I will take
Billy Butler all day if being on the Royals holds down his value. Alberto Callaspo, assuming he doesn't lose playing time is
another example. That has it's limitations because the player actually has to have some value. But I agree that DeJesus
is also in that category.

In theory, the quality of the team that the player is on is factored into the projection (bad OBP hitters in front of guys
in the middle of the lineup depresses RBI opportunities).

[lawr]

agreed again, in that those players--butler, dejesus--are usually a little undervalued. that should make grienke interesting in the coming year.

but,they also have a hard time assembling a dominant year.

grienke as the example you cited. what would his totals be like were he a yankee or dodger though?

[aburt19]

agreed again, in that those players--butler, dejesus--are usually a little undervalued. that should make grienke interesting in the coming year.

but,they also have a hard time assembling a dominant year.

grienke as the example you cited. what would his totals be like were he a yankee or dodger though?

Greinke would have a lot more wins. But considering the ballpark effects of Royals stadium and Yankees stadium, I actually
think that his ERA would rise, not to high levels, but higher than last year.

Going back a long time, Carlton had some of is best years playing on a team that was lousy. Ditto, Robin Roberts and that
was for almost his entire career. There have been pitchers who play on bad teams and still do very well. There are also
pitchers who play for good teams who for whatever reason don't win as many games as expected. The only thing
Greinke missed last year was a few wins and a fantasy player who chases wins is trying to catch lightning. Wins are
just too fickle.

Every team has one hard luck pitcher who to team doesn't support with many runs, so it even happens on good teams.
I don't know that it is this season, but I think Butler has a 30 HR season in the two or three years. Whoever gets him at
a discounted price that season will be very happy.

[JP Kastner]

Plus/Minus was developed by John Dewan and Baseball Info Solutions. They published two books, The Fielding Book Volumes I and II. They also included some limited Plus/Minus data in the Bill James Handbook every year.

How plus minus works is that they study video of every play and compare it against what the average player would do. It is quite amazing.

Defense is an uncharted area of study in baseball. It will be interesting to see to pitchers' ERA in Seattle because that team has the best defense since the early '80 Cardinals.

[da_big_kid_94]

Plus/Minus was developed by John Dewan and Baseball Info Solutions. They published two books, The Fielding Book Volumes I and II. They also included some limited Plus/Minus data in the Bill James Handbook every year.

How plus minus works is that they study video of every play and compare it against what the average player would do. It is quite amazing.

Defense is an uncharted area of study in baseball. It will be interesting to see to pitchers' ERA in Seattle because that team has the best defense since the early '80 Cardinals.

Thank you for the source, J.P. Some interesting stuff there.

[Kelly_Leak]

I would like to add the Toronto Blue Jays to the discussion...although I guess they have more of a "damaged rudder" as opposed to a "badly broken" one.

I think it is easy to make Ricciardi the scapegoat...yes, he signed Wells, Ryan, Rios, etc. to inflated contracts, but others approved these deals. The team seems to alter their plans/philosophy on a yearly basis. .. 2008 - lets lock up Alex Rios long term ... 2009 - lets see if anyone will take Rios contract off our hands for nothing.

Maybe it has been just bad luck, but I also question their use of pitchers on both the MLB and Minor League level. It is possible they were just spoiled with Halladay, which gave management a false sense as to what is an appropriate work load for many of their young arms.

[cwk1963]

I've avoided this for a couple days so I wouldn't have the appearance of piling on. However, the allure has been too great to resist anymore. What were the Mets thinking when they traded for Gary Matthews Jr? Here's just a sample from Buster Olney's January 23 column:

To sum up the view of Matthews within the game: He can't hit for average, can't hit for power, his defense ranks statistically among the worst outfielders in the majors and, to top it off, rival scouts have been reporting that in recent years he has been a clubhouse negative.

If Matthews were a free agent, he would be a player who might get a $500,000 non-guaranteed minor league deal with an invitation to spring training. And yet the Mets opted to commit $2.5 million and to trade a serviceable pitcher in Brian Stokes to get a player whose effectiveness might have ended years ago.

Very strange.

Very strange indeed.

The whole article is here: http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/in ... ney_buster

[lawr]

could not agree (be more puzzled) more, re matthews.

i never even trusted this one good year (ahem, enhanced that is).

but, years ago, i remember posting in an email thread in our then newsletter, i think between chris maher and trace wood that was a very funny "point/counterpoint" discussion.

todd, do you remember that?

lawr

[da_big_kid_94]

Yes, it's a resurrection, but this is from my fave, Bill Madden of the NY Daily News in today's (2/28/10) column;

Pirates president Frank Coonelly set off a firestorm in Pittsburgh last week with his declaration: "Don't let people tell you the Pirates don't have a great future. Today is our future and 2010 is the beginning of the next dynasty of the Pirates." Say what? Last year, after Coonelly traded away all the Pirates' highest-salaried players for packages of questionable prospects and the team lost 46 of its last 65 games to finish last in the NL Central with 62-99 record. The only additions of note they made over the winter were the signing of Akinori Iwamura to play second base and Ryan Church for the outfield. Hardly dynasty-making players. After 17 straight losing seasons, the fans of Pittsburgh are fed up with empty platitudes from Pirates execs like Coonelly. The only thing for them to look forward to this year is the arrival of third base prospect and Washington Heights product, Pedro Alvarez, who, if the Bob Nutting ownership is still in place, figures to be around for maybe five years until Coonelly trades him.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/colum ... z0gqQfKovc

They sure know how to inspire hope out there, don't they? Take a Pirate on your fantasy team this year? Caveat Emptor.

[da_big_kid_94]

I know - a very old thread .... but with a new take that I had not considered. From my muse, Bill Madden of the NY Daily News on 11/14/2010:

It appears everything is still up to date in Kansas City, where the Royals continue their decades' long practice of trading off their best players right before they reach free agency for little return. The latest is outfielder David DeJesus, whom the Royals shipped to the Oakland A's last week for two dubious pitchers Vin Mazzaro, who was demoted by the A's to Triple-A last season, and Justin Marks, who was 3-12 with a 4.27 ERA in A-ball. Interesting because a year ago, when the Yankees inquired about DeJesus, K.C. was asking for top prospect Jesus Montero plus. The Royals cite a savings of $5 million in the deal while also noting that DeJesus was probably going to cost $20-25 million to keep longterm. What they don't tell their disilluisioned fan base is that they got a check for $32 million in revenue sharing this year.

Italics mine.

Amazing how much a year had devalued DeJesus' worth, eh? One year ago, the Royals thought he was worth Jesus Montero and more ... and now look at what they thought he was worth. This could have been resurrected in the old collusion thread - but the point's the same - there are teams in MLB who just don't care what sort of club they field as long as revenue streams aren't impacted - regardless of where those streams come from - even as subsidies. Anyone believe this sort of mantra doesn't permeate down to the playing field? You take a Royal next year and it's caveat emptor - no matter how rosy the front office prose may be.