a couple dump options

[mjlewis]

10-team NL 5x5 using AVG. I will be able to keep 15 players for next year; any number of them can be minor leaguers (we have 17 reserve slots) but we can only choose three of them to have their contracts not start, so if you have four minor leaguers one of them will be year 2 next year. Minor leaguers don't count against the auction budget.

Option year is year 3; raises are $5 per additional year.

My keeper list as it currently stands is kind of heavy on pitching and minor leaguers:

Cozart (6/yr 1)
LaRoche (6/yr 2)
Craig (10/yr 2)
Cishek (if closer - 5/yr 1)
Clippard (if closer - 10/yr 2)
Leake? (1/yr 1)
Madson (if closer - 5/yr 1)
James McDonald (1/yr 1)
Street (if closer - 12/2013)

Wong (5/rookie)
Rendon (9/rookie)
Hamilton (10/rookie)
Bradley (10/rookie)
Cingrani (5/rookie)
Teheran (10/rookie)

Here are the offers I'm considering now. They kind of overlap and one of them is nonspecific right now, but I need to figure out what to prioritize and how much negotiation I need to do.

Halladay for Jon Jay (2/yr 2), Starling Marte (12/rookie)

Halladay, Blanton, Clippard, ARamirez for Dickey (2/yr 1), Detwiler (5/yr 1), Buehrle (6/yr 1), Gary Brown (7/rookie), Helton (8/yr 2)

Halladay, Hart, Scutaro, ARamirez for Goldschmidt (5/yr 1), Matt Adams (5/yr 1), Barney (1/yr 1), two of Friedrich (5/yr 1) Billingsley (5/yr 1) Harvey (10/rookie) Trevor May (5/yr 1)

Halladay, Hart, Street for some not-yet-negotiated subset of Pedro Alvarez (4/yr 1), Morrison (1/yr 2), Rizzo (10/yr 2), Bauer (11/yr 1), Worley (5/yr 2)

What should I ask for in the last one? Are any of those obviously way better than the alternatives? also should I be considering Hart a keeper at 24?

[da_big_kid_94]

Mine is a 4x4 NL only but ultra style as well with pretty much the same roster and keeper parameters as you. From your list, here is one man's version of your keepers (in blue);

Cozart (6/yr 1) - good value for a bat in that park
LaRoche (6/yr 2) - right now he serves no purpose in 2013
Craig (10/yr 2) can't see him being hurt as much next year
Cishek (if closer - 5/yr 1)
Clippard (if closer - 10/yr 2)
Leake? (1/yr 1) - for a buck, you could do a lot worse
Madson (if closer - 5/yr 1)
McDonald (1/yr 1) - That's better
Street (if closer - 12/2013)

4 if closers - none of them worth having; Cishek? Why's he going to improve so much in 2013 - and he's got as good a chance to lose the job if he gets it. Clippard? Storen. Madson? Who gives a closer job to someone just off TJ surgery?

Wong (5/rookie) - nothing to lose
Rendon (9/rookie) - too much off a broken ankle
Hamilton (10/rookie) - speed factor makes him an intriguing keeper
Bradley (10/rookie) - As long as you have room for him
Cingrani (5/rookie) - looks like a live enough arm
Teheran (10/rookie) too expensive

The best of the deals is the fourth one. Hart is borderline at 24 - but that's quite a nice haul in value you'd be getting back.

[mjlewis]

yeah, I'm not expecting much out of that pile of "closers", but if Cishek or Madson nominally have the job, they're worth keeping. The other options I currently have are guys like Adam Eaton, Clevenger, McKenry, Ruggiano (at 10), or minor leaguers Adam Eaton, Jorge Soler, Scott Van Slyke (he has to get 130 AB to not count as a ML'er), Logan Schafer, Jake Elmore... nothing super exciting but I should know more by the end of the year.

I forgot about the infielder dork McDonald. My guy is James.

I might be able to split Halladay out of the last deal (and not get Bauer) and do #2 and #4. I'll see what owner #4 thinks of that.

- Mike

[Captain Hook]

"Halladay, Hart, Scutaro, ARamirez for Goldschmidt (5/yr 1), Matt Adams (5/yr 1), Barney (1/yr 1), two of Friedrich (5/yr 1) Billingsley (5/yr 1) Harvey (10/rookie) Trevor May (5/yr 1)"

I go for this one to get Goldschmidt, Barney and Harvey (taking Harvey and Friedrich of the pitcher choices)
then IF Adams is in play next year it looks even better



IF you can't get that one then I like
"Halladay, Blanton, Clippard, ARamirez for Dickey (2/yr 1), Detwiler (5/yr 1), Buehrle (6/yr 1), Gary Brown (7/rookie), Helton (8/yr 2)"
Especially if you can get something better than Helton thrown in (IF not I immediately start shopping Helton along with Street and other parts to get something of value for next year or beyond.
Gary Brown might well be starting in the Giants outfield next year with Speed

[da_big_kid_94]

yeah, I'm not expecting much out of that pile of "closers", but if Cishek or Madson nominally have the job, they're worth keeping. The other options I currently have are guys like Adam Eaton, Clevenger, McKenry, Ruggiano (at 10), or minor leaguers Adam Eaton, Jorge Soler, Scott Van Slyke (he has to get 130 AB to not count as a ML'er), Logan Schafer, Jake Elmore... nothing super exciting but I should know more by the end of the year.

I forgot about the infielder dork McDonald. My guy is James.

I might be able to split Halladay out of the last deal (and not get Bauer) and do #2 and #4. I'll see what owner #4 thinks of that.

- Mike

Actually, Mike ...probably not ...I'd cut them both out of the picture and let someone else get the agita with them next year. And I'd trade Doc while I could. As Branch Rickey said; "Better a year too early than a year too late." I like Doc...but next year he turns 36 - if that's what it would take to get someone of Bauer's potential? I'd do it.

[mjlewis]

Actually, Mike ...probably not ...I'd cut them both out of the picture and let someone else get the agita with them next year. And I'd trade Doc while I could. As Branch Rickey said; "Better a year too early than a tear too late." I like Doc...but next year he turns 36 - if that's what it would take to get someone of Bauer's potential? I'd do it.

Oh, Halladay is definitely getting traded. But you think Bauer is a lock to go for more than 11 at auction next year? That's about the same price as Dempster, Cahill, and Wandy went for this year.

[da_big_kid_94]

Actually, Mike ...probably not ...I'd cut them both out of the picture and let someone else get the agita with them next year. And I'd trade Doc while I could. As Branch Rickey said; "Better a year too early than a tear too late." I like Doc...but next year he turns 36 - if that's what it would take to get someone of Bauer's potential? I'd do it.

Oh, Halladay is definitely getting traded. But you think Bauer is a lock to go for more than 11 at auction next year? That's about the same price as Dempster, Cahill, and Wandy went for this year.

Sure, because he's the latest flavor of the month. Keep in mind ...you lose a whole team next year - and Wandy and Dempster are getting long in the tooth as well. And Cahill hasn't exactly torn it up this year. If Bauer has even a so so remainder of the year, he'll go 15 on spec alone.

[Captain Hook]

IF Bauer is even every other start Bauer Good he will go for even more than dbk suggests

[mjlewis]

I ended up doing the Goldschmidt one but replacing Hart with LaRoche and taking Billingsley and Harvey (I am irrationally annoyed with Friedrich from another league where I put a huge FAAB bid on him and then he has been horrible so far).

So I still have Hart and a couple other pieces I can move. I've been offered the following:

Bauer (11/yr 1), Thole (4/yr 1), Carlos Martinez (10/rookie) for Hart (24/yr 1), McKenry (5/yr 1), Ruggiano (10/yr 1), Street (12/2013).

I already have Bradley (10/rookie), Cingrani (5/rookie), Harvey (10/rookie), and Teheran (10/rookie) as minor league pitchers. Is Martinez way better than that group? I might be able to get him to replace Martinez with someone like Alvarez or Logan Morrison, which I assume is a lot better, but I'm not sure I can make that happen. Looking at Sickels' midseason prospect list, all of Martinez, Bradley, Harvey, and Teheran are right next to each other in his rankings...

[Captain Hook]

Bauer (11/yr 1), Thole (4/yr 1), Carlos Martinez (10/rookie) for Hart (24/yr 1), McKenry (5/yr 1), Ruggiano (10/yr 1), Street (12/2013).


DO THIS QUICKLY B4 THE GUY CHANGES HIS MIND

[mjlewis]

by the time I got back to him, he also wanted Billingsley (5/yr 1), which maybe shouldn't have put me off but it annoyed me enough that I decided to think about it a bit longer. Then the guy who had Votto needed a replacement 1B and although he'd sold off most of his useful keepers anyway I found something useful.

The trade I ended up making was Hart (24/yr 1), Street (12/2013), Blanton (10/yr 1), Lombardozzi(1/yr 1) for Espinosa (5/yr 2) and AJ Burnett (2/yr 1). Not sure this was better, but I just felt like I had so many minor league and pitching keepers (I also picked up Brian Wilson at 7/yr 1).

so as usual I have most of my pitching staff filled out, a couple of decent hitting keepers, and no big discounted stars, but I didn't have that much to sell either.