FAAB bid on Matt Moore

[special k]

Guy is available. What do the pros think is a reasonable keeper price for 2012? Bids due tonight.

[Captain Hook]

Sorry - didn't see this before Football started

BUT if you are saying that whatever you bid on him, I would err on the low side to really have something, but most I would pay is what a "normal" free agent has for a retention salary......AND

If you can forgive a slight rant - you really should get your league to change the fact that a player's FAAB bid is his salary for the next season - totally distorts your auction/keeper prices and the value of minor leaguers if you have them.

For $260 auction teams, whether or not you use an in season salary cap and I do prefer that, a free agent's retention salary should be $10 and this year would be the first of the three before you could extend him

[CubFan]

Since the time has passed to pick him up I wont feel so bad hijacking the topic. Perry, would you feel the same was with regards to leagues that allow owners to protect keepers at their FAAB bid the following season if they do NOT have a minor system for players? We don't and it's the only way an owner can get a prospect, sometimes, at a cheap price. At auction they are almost always over-hyped/overpriced.

[Captain Hook]

Since the time has passed to pick him up I wont feel so bad hijacking the topic. Perry, would you feel the same was with regards to leagues that allow owners to protect keepers at their FAAB bid the following season if they do NOT have a minor system for players? We don't and it's the only way an owner can get a prospect, sometimes, at a cheap price. At auction they are almost always over-hyped/overpriced.

Yes - two things

1) FAAB bid should never be the salary going forward......what happens if a player who isn't even a top prospect, much easier with a pitcher is getting called up for a spot start and a team reads it and gets him for a $1.........then the player develops into a good SP - has happened numerous times. So he has that pitcher for $1? In other weeks there might actually be competitive bidding for a less valuable player.

2) The main problem is still that you are subverting auction pricing - you are talking about teams acquiring players not even available in the auction at significant discounts - following year auction pricing gets worse with ten+ players taken out of the pool

3) Really lends itself to massive Stars & Scrubs approach to the auction because if it hits I am good, if not I can trade the top players for well priced youngsters AND pick players off the FA list for a buck or two and be really tough the following year.

All of these are negated by a $10 retention price - in my league shorthand, 10F11

[special k]

Perry,

Thanks, will bring up at league meeting this winter. This was our second year only of FAAB after 30 years of this league, got to break them in slowly. We have $10 for waiver keepers and $5 for reserve list keepers; that's why I'm doing battle for first with a team with a $5 AGon. I think $10 across the board is a good suggestion. I will come back here and cut and paste some of the comments. Probably without revealing the source, in a where-do-you-fish non-response, it was just an expert on the web, kind of way.

In the meantime, I hope the Rays trade Niemann, Shields or Davis and put Moore in the rotation so I can keep him for $8, which seemed reasonable after reading about him and watching him harness my Sox the other day.

[CubFan]

special k.....$8 salary is nice, provided he starts the season in the majors. Dunnno if they will do the same with him as with Price. What happens in your league if he starts out in the minors before your auction? Does he have to be dropped or can you still protect him?

[CubFan]

Since the time has passed to pick him up I wont feel so bad hijacking the topic. Perry, would you feel the same was with regards to leagues that allow owners to protect keepers at their FAAB bid the following season if they do NOT have a minor system for players? We don't and it's the only way an owner can get a prospect, sometimes, at a cheap price. At auction they are almost always over-hyped/overpriced.

Yes - two things

1) FAAB bid should never be the salary going forward......what happens if a player who isn't even a top prospect, much easier with a pitcher is getting called up for a spot start and a team reads it and gets him for a $1.........then the player develops into a good SP - has happened numerous times. So he has that pitcher for $1? In other weeks there might actually be competitive bidding for a less valuable player.

2) The main problem is still that you are subverting auction pricing - you are talking about teams acquiring players not even available in the auction at significant discounts - following year auction pricing gets worse with ten+ players taken out of the pool

3) Really lends itself to massive Stars & Scrubs approach to the auction because if it hits I am good, if not I can trade the top players for well priced youngsters AND pick players off the FA list for a buck or two and be really tough the following year.

All of these are negated by a $10 retention price - in my league shorthand, 10F11

I understand your arguments. In our H2H league this is about the only way of keeping everyone's interest in the league after the playoffs start at the end of August. Normally we have several bids for these Sept callups. While their salary may not be a true reflection of their auction worth it allows those teams who are not in the playoffs to possibly contend the next year. We don't have too many trades during the season as most everyone is trying to get the better end of the deal or fear the other guy is trying to take advantage of them. So, FAAB is one of the only ways to acquire some talent. We do have one owner in our league who supports your views but sorry to say this your view is in the minority in our league. I may run the idea of having a floor of $5 or their FAAB, whichever is higher, assigned to the player for the following year. But most everyone in our league likes to have that option of acquiring a $1 stud player. BTW......those usually don't happen as everyone is pretty astute and when those types of minor leaguers are called up they end up with decent price tags.

[Captain Hook]

In our H2H league this is about the only way of keeping everyone's interest in the league after the playoffs start at the end of August. Normally we have several bids for these Sept callups

True - BUT you are giving a big advantage on those players to the non-contending teams because the playoff/contending teams likely can't afford to cut a productive player for a very good prospect who may spend most of their time on the bench in September

You could maintain every team's interest by doing two things IF you eliminated that
1) Give a second half prize....real money - for the team not making the playoffs who had the best record AFTER the All Star break; and

2) Have a minor league draft after the auction - even a short two or three round one AND have the positions for that draft based on total year record starting at 1.01 with the best record for teams not making the playoffs, through the last team and then the playoff teams in reverse order of finish

Now everyone would have a reason to keep playing all year and you would not subvert your salary structure

[special k]

I like the floor bid idea, maybe for players picked up after the all-star break, at least. Maybe that would prevent poaching at the buzzer. Either $5 or $10; probably my league would only go with $5. One thing is that a few of us fare well most years, and others would resent a rule change that might prevent non-contenders from snatching a keeper.

Re: Moore, I could keep him and replace him from the minor league pool unless he is cut before our draft. My guess is a trade will open up a spot.
I am in first by a point now and dumped Bartolo "No-wins-since-July-and-I'm-running-on-fumes" Colon for him, even though I'm in a four-way tie for third in wins. I think Moore has just as good a chance at winning a game or two as fat-cell Bartolo, and Moore will allow me to hold critical slim margins in ratio and ERA. (I have picked up six points in those categories in less than a month by jettisoning Gregg, Furbush and Wakefield in favor of Cory Wade, Francisco and J. Peralta. The fact I guessed correctly that the latter two would soon also close helped, too. I love FAAB, however we sort out the rules.)

[CubFan]

In our H2H league this is about the only way of keeping everyone's interest in the league after the playoffs start at the end of August. Normally we have several bids for these Sept callups

True - BUT you are giving a big advantage on those players to the non-contending teams because the playoff/contending teams likely can't afford to cut a productive player for a very good prospect who may spend most of their time on the bench in September

You could maintain every team's interest by doing two things IF you eliminated that
1) Give a second half prize....real money - for the team not making the playoffs who had the best record AFTER the All Star break; and

2) Have a minor league draft after the auction - even a short two or three round one AND have the positions for that draft based on total year record starting at 1.01 with the best record for teams not making the playoffs, through the last team and then the playoff teams in reverse order of finish

Now everyone would have a reason to keep playing all year and you would not subvert your salary structure

Like your suggestion for #1. Will bring that up to the league for a vote. As for #2, we used to have a minor league draft with a similar structure but 3 years ago we did away with it because about half the owners felt the draft was too long (bunch of weenies). I liked it but the vote went 7-5 against continuing.

[Captain Hook]

Well, try this - since the minor league draft has to be done after the auction, you can do it by email - put out a template with the pick numbers/teams and send it around league wide - it doesn't matter if it takes three days or two weeks (although I would put some kind of time limit on it for each pick so one guy doesn't hold up the entire draft).