2011 CATCHER CONSENSUS RANKINGS

[deansdaddy]

Please rank your top-12 Catchers using standard 5x5 rotisserie scoring rules (HR, BA, RBI, SB, R)

Feel free to provide commentary along with your picks.

Scoring will be done MVP style, your top catcher will get 12 points.

If you want to give honorable mentions to those outside your Top 12, feel free.

After we receive enough votes, we'll post the results in a separate thread along with comparisons to the Mastersball rankings.

Look forward to seeing everyone's lists and thoughts.

[deansdaddy]

I'll start things off with my Top 12 C for 2011.

I don't have time to break down each choice - but I will come back and provide some thoughts later.


1.) Joe Mauer
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2.) Victor Martinez
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3.) Buster Posey
4.) Carlos Santana
5.) Brian McCann
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6.) Geovany Soto
7.) Kurt Suzuki
8.) Mike Napoli
9.) Miguel Montero
10.) Matt Wieters
11.) Jorge Posada
12.) Yadier Molina

HM - Chris Iannetta, AJ Pierzynski, Russell Martin

[cwk1963]

1. V-Mart - call me crazy but I like him better than Mauer. I think Mauer's true HR output is the low double digits - 2009 was an extreme outlier. VMart could hit double the number of HR with a very nice BA.
2. Mauer - I like VMart's power better. If Mauer gets just 2 fewer hits/month, his projected BA is reduced to .310 and a lot of his value is lost.
3. McCann -steady, proven production.
4. Posey - his assault on the catcher rankings starts in earnest this year. home park will suppress HR total a bit.
5. Posada - move to DH will keep him fresher; still has 20 HR power in that ballpark.
6. Napoli - won't happen but would love to see how many HR he could hit in Texas with 500 AB.
7. Wieters - fulfills some of his potential in 2011.
8. Soto - I like him to continue 2010 bounceback.
9. Santana - Indians will DH him some to keep him fresh and avoid some wear and tear on repaired knee.
10. Suzuki - heavy workload past few years pushes him down rankings.
11. Iannetta - could hit 20 HR in 2011. extremely unlucky BABIP in 2010.
12. Arencibia - I like his potential better than some of the others.

[deansdaddy]

1.) Joe Mauer - I don't disagree with anything Chris wrote about VMart as the potential No 1. In fact I would rather have Victor than Mauer this year to tell the truth. But I still think Mauer is the head of the class and the guy you will see come off draft boards first. Does that mean you should be the guy to pick him - NO I don't think this is the year you need to reach because as Chris points out the power likely won't approach previous highs.
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2.) Victor Martinez - I totally agree that VMart could be heading for a career season in Detroit this year. He's nestled in a good lineup and a great ballpark and his power numbers are something you can bank on. I think he is alone in a tier just slightly below Mauer and if you are picking in the middle of the pack (7-11) in a 15 team draft he is going to be awfully hard to pass up in the third round.
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3.) Buster Posey - Posey is another guy I doubt I will own on any team this year. Let's face it, his stock is high going into this year's draft and deservedly so. The kid was simply amazing last year - but the fact is someone in your draft will be willing to pay more than you to get him this year. I say let them. Still, he's good and I don't see a sophomore slump coming for him - .300 20 HR's and 80+ rbi's are reasonable projections.

4.) Carlos Santana - Okay, the cat is out of the bag - I like Santana more than almost anybody. I truly believe he can be a difference maker this year and is totally capable of leapfrogging everybody above him on this list this year. I had to put him ahead of McCann since I chose him with McCann on the board in Perry Van Hook's PBY league in January. Yes - I'm being a homer but still - most projections I've seen on him have him down for 350-400 abs. I understand why they have to do this since he is coming back from a serious injury but I'm here to say that I firmly believe there is NO WAY the Indians don't find a way to have this guy in the lineup EVERY DAY. He has already been working out at 1B and I guarantee he will DH at the very least once or twice a week to keep Hafner fresh. But not only will he play everyday, he will be nestled right in the cleanup spot (something else I have seen no one say). If what I say comes true - 100 RBI's are a distinct possibility. Oh yeah - he steals bases too.

5.) Brian McCann -McAnn rounds out this tier for me because he is the most stable of the three to tell the truth. He doesn't have the upside of the two sophomore's but he also doesn't have the risk.
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6.) Geovany Soto - The injury risk is the only thing keeping Soto out of the Tier above for me. I think he proved he was back last year, but if you had him the late season injury was a killer. Still - he's the name you will see called after the Top 5 are gone and he has the ability to put up bigger numbers than he has to date if he and his lineup mates can stay healthy this year.

7.) Kurt Suzuki -Honestly, until I read Chris's post I hadn't really considered workload an issue, but now I see the cloud. He did slip back last year and I believe that the BA especially will come back. But it's true, his value is derived from the premise that you will get the 500 AB's from him. He's not sexy - just solid.

8.) Mike Napoli - Naopli stays in the AL and lands in a great spot. He'll be able to swing away from a safe spot down in the lineup. He could easily lead all C's in HR's. He is probably the best target if you are going to wait a bit on the position.

9.) Miguel Montero - For me Montero is a clear Top 10 option. He killed a lot of owners last year, but the injury he sustained was not terrible. I have read that he actually came back a much better defensive catcher after the injury and he should be a good bet for 15-20 HR's this year.

10.) Matt Wieters - The best thing that happend to Wieters was all the guys the Orioles brought in over the off-season. With so many veteran sticks on board, his main focus will be to help handle the kiddie corps pitching staff. He will be dropped down in the lineup (maybe 9th) and he will finally start to show some of the promise that had us all drooling when he first came up.

11.) Jorge Posada - I think Posada will still be a quality option at C this year, but at 39 there is simply more downside than upside in his numbers and I doubt I'll own him anywhere this year.

12.) Yadier Molina - Molina gets the last spot on my rankings because of all the guys left he has the potential to do two things that no one else left can/will. He won't kill your BA and he will steal a few bases. He's a safe option that you grab as your No 1 before you come back with an upside guy like Iannetta or Arencibia.

Honorable Mention -

Chris Iannetta - I drafted him as my NO. 1 C in an early draft when I waited on the position. I think he get's 20 HR's this year.

[aburt19]

Victor Martinez went to Detroit, not Chicago. Thus the effects of his move to Detroit may be detrimental due to the
effects of his home park.

[Black Sox]

Here is mine...

I will preface this by saying that I take a different approach than most at the C position. I always look to draft C later than most ( and I play in 2 C leagues ). I just feel that the quality of player you pass on early in a draft to select a top tier option can cripple you later in the draft. The top 4 won't be on any of my teams.

12 Mauer, Joe ( He's not Piazza or I Rod so he's not a round 1/2 pick in my opinion )
11 Martinez, Victor ( nice all around production )
10 Posey, Buster
9 McCann, Brian ( Posey but without the upside )
8 Napoli, Mike ( love the move to Tex and I think playing less limits the BA risk )
7 Santana, Carlos ( Like what I've seen, but have to see it over a full season )
6 Soto, Geovany ( bounce back likley now that shoulder should be healthy )
5 Montero, Miguel
4 Wieters, Matt ( post hype breakout coming??? )
3 Suzuki, Kurt ( steady as they come )
2 Molina, Yadier ( BA protection he priovides is underated in my opinion )
1 Posada, Jorge ( he'll get hurt, miss time, but DH will help )

[deansdaddy]

Victor Martinez went to Detroit, not Chicago. Thus the effects of his move to Detroit may be detrimental due to the
effects of his home park.

You are right - thanks for catching that.

[garadand]

I am new around here... first year in the Mastersball dynasty league but wanted to throw my 2 cents in on this one... when drafting catchers there are several things to look at as with any other position but for catcher its exceedingly more important. The first I find is whether or not they will get enough ABs in the counting stats to offset the fact that most are going to kill your BA. This fact is directly tied to injury history, capable backups, where they are in the batting order, etc. The second is, is waiting on a catcher really going to hurt you in the long run? In most cases unless you grab one of the top 4-5 I would have to say no, so if you are not in love with a top tier catcher there is plenty of reasons, to wait until one will drop to you that you feel comfortable drafting. And here goes my rankings...

1. Joe Mauer- Noone is going to come close to his .330 BA, and is probably the only one besides V-mart who may give you a slight edge in this category, would gladly sacrifice a few HR for this one, power can be made up much later, but there are only a few guys who get over a 300 BA every year.

2. V-mart- While he will hit in the middle of a decent (somewhat) lineup his production and counting stats are affected more by the people around him than probably the rest of the people on this list. Who will hit in front of him this year? Assuming he is in the 3-hole, you have A-Jax in the 1 hole who had a ridiculously high BABIP last year and in the 2-hole, can you pick one right now? My pick would be casper wells (who has a MiL OBP of .340). For reference johnny damon's (.355) down year last year his OBP was higher than AJAXs (345). Also, whats going to happen with Miguel Cabrera hitting behind him? Assuming V-mart is hitting in the 3-hole, if this alcohol problem is going to linger with cabrera all these factors could be a big hit to V-marts counting stats. (just some things to think about)

3. Brian McCann- About the steadiest guy on this list, you can pretty much count on .280/.370/.480 slash lines, with 20+ HR.

4. Buster Posey- Probably the only guy I would think reaching on because of this kids potential, would you be surprised if he hit 25 HR and had a .300 BA? I wouldn't.

This is where my rankings get a slightly different...

5. Geovany Soto- The reason here, is barring injury, I'd expect him to get 450 AB. He hit 17 HR in 322 Ab last year with a .280 BA. If he gets to 450 that puts him at 23-24 HR and a not so killer .280 avg sign me up.

6. Carlos Santana- While, many are high on him to break out and have a monster year I am not completely sold on him, while I think he will probably reach the 20 HR plateau, I wouldn't be surprised to see him only reach in the mid-teens. I believe that 2012 will be his breakout season, and he may struggle as wieters did in his first (year or two adjusting to ML pitching. (look at his MiL #s not all are stellar, looks as though as he had a adjustment period at every level he went)

7. Matt Wieters- The aforementioned Wieters, has all the potential in the world, and while his power #'s may not come completely around (i expect around 15 dingers), I am high on his average going back up to the 290-295 range.

8. Montero- We start getting hairy here, and the reason why I put montero here is because he is almost a sure bet to get close to 500 ABs as anyone on this list, which means his counting stats will get a boost and help that 265-275 avg.

9. Mike Napoli- Tough to ignore the power and moving to arlington, but also tough to ignore the fact he doesn't really have a position and will be stuck behind M. Young who will be playing everywhere on the diamond including DH and 1B, two of Napoli's 3 positions. If he's lucky he'll get 20 HR in 350 AB

10. Posada- I find posado in the same boat as napoli, while he can still hit at a decent clip, the yankees will be funneling the older guys through the DH position, thereby forcing posada to either put back on the gear or figure out how to scoop 1-hoppers to spell Tex when he needs a break. Again lucky to get 20 HR in 350 AB.

11. Suzuki- While he will not provide the greatest of power and BA he will have the benefit of playing every single day I mean have you ever heard of Landon Powell or Josh Donaldson?

And here is why I waited... the rest are crap shoots....

I put Iannetta, Chooch, Y. Molina, Buck, and even Olivo in the same bracket because everyone of these guys should play 5-6 days a week, and pick up R and RBI on any given day. Some have higher BA (chooch/molina) than others (iannetta/buck) but if you need some pop, those guys will be available. The one thing is for certain you will get almost NO SB out of any catchers, don't think we'll see a catcher get over 10 SB this year (i don't think martin will be running for the yanks with a repaired knee )

Also, Arencibia (Risk/Reward), the thing that concerns me about him, is if he gets off to a slow start he has a capable backup in Jose molina to take his place.

[deansdaddy]

Hey Adam - thanks for posting. Just for arguments sake on Santana: While I concede that your view of Santana is perfectly valid, I just don't really see that your ML argument backs it up. You have to go back to 2007, when Santana was 21, to see the last time he really struggled in the minors. You can't count a two game AA slate in 2008 against him in this argument. Throw that blip out and here's his ML numbers the last three years:

2008 (3 teams A+/2 games at AA)- 130 games -.326, 125 R, 21 HR, 117 RBI, 10 SB's
2009 (The real move up to AA) - 130 games -.290, 91 R , 23 HR, 97 RBI, 2 SB
2010 (AAA) - 57 games -.316, 40 R, 13 HR, 51 RBI, 6 SB
2010 (MLB) - 46 games -.260, 23 R, 6 HR, 22 RBI, 3 SB

So I guess what I'm saying is I don't see the struggle to adjust (the last three years at least) that you do. And since he's already had his cup of coffee, he is not a first year rookie this year. You can point to the .260 Avg last year, but I would counter with his .401 OBA and 37/29 BB/K which showed an advanced eye/patience for the young backstop. Wieters for example had a 28/86 BB/K mark his rookie year and followed it up with 47/94 BB/K last year. Again - I think most would agree. One place I think we all can agree is Santana is one of those players you really want to see what he can do this year.

[SteveB]

Well looks like i am going to be the one to be a tad different on this one.


Mauer --- A near .330 lifetime batting average, comparable RUNS and RBI's , with a handful of HRs to boot.
Clearly the elite of the C class.
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Posey--- I think he is comparable right now to both McCann and Vmart. With equal ABs and a full season
call up he would have equaled or surpassed both in almost every category. I give him a slight bump for upside.
I already drafted Posey in one league in the late third round and took him before Vmart who was still on the board
so i am willing to put my money where my mouth is on this one.

Vmart--- Playing a lot of DH I think will help keeps his ABs high.

McCann--- very consistent solid production across all categories even with a handful of stolen bases.
I view this as a safe but boring pick. I think we have seen his ceiling and upside is minimal.

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Soto--- healthy again should have a nice bounce back.

Santana--I like his upside which could vault him into the top 3 when we are having this discussion next year.
The only draw back with him is that the dreaded "sleeper" tag is popping up on him all over the net. As the
hype gets going any real chance at draft value will disappear.

Posada-- Yes i know he is 39!! but looking at his last two years he brings great production in sub 400 ABs.
With a health free year and if DH'ing keeps him consistently in the lineup i see a possible top 5 C come years end.
The beauty of this one is i have seen him drafted as low as 184.


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Montero--with a healthy knee and no competition to start this year should get a nice bump in ABs.
with his talent thats a good thing


M.Weiters

Suzuki

Napoli--- consistently gets over 20 HRs. Great source to target to fill a power need in middle rounds.
Gets a few less ABs which actually helps minimize the damage his average does to the teams.

Y.Molina

____________________________________________________________________________

Honorable Mention
C.Ianetta once again has the COL job to lose. Has nice pop and should hit the 20 HR plateau

[AllstonRockCity]

Victor Martinez went to Detroit, not Chicago. Thus the effects of his move to Detroit may be detrimental due to the
effects of his home park.

Yes, but his move from a C who plays some 1B/DH to a 'full-time' DH who Catches 1 or 2 days a week will create many more ABs and lower his injury risk (further increasing his AB potential). Isn't this 1 of the classic 'sneaky' moves in fantasy baseball?? Finding a guy eligible at C who actually plays every day at another position??

While DET is not a hitter's haven, 100 more ABs in a season will off-set that by a considerable margin.

When I finally get around to posting my player rankings, I too will have VMart #1.

[garadand]

Ryan, I was talking more about the

.223/.318/.370 (yikes) lines in A, in 292 ABs
and

his .268/.345/.384 to A+... but i guess he was 21 and 20 respectively, so it could have just been a maturing issue or focus on defense, i just think that big league pitching will make an adjustment facing him a couple times around the league, he could be one of those guys who starts up really hot and then cools off. You're right though his 400+ OBP is very nice for a young player, I think THIS year in a normal non-keeper league I'd rather go with Soto. Again, I am more of a know what you are going to get kind of guy than upside, and if I am drafting a guy this high, i'd rather know what to expect and take a high upside guy later in a draft.

[deansdaddy]

Ryan, I was talking more about the

.223/.318/.370 (yikes) lines in A, in 292 ABs
and

his .268/.345/.384 to A+... but i guess he was 21 and 20 respectively, so it could have just been a maturing issue or focus on defense, i just think that big league pitching will make an adjustment facing him a couple times around the league, he could be one of those guys who starts up really hot and then cools off. You're right though his 400+ OBP is very nice for a young player, I think THIS year in a normal non-keeper league I'd rather go with Soto. Again, I am more of a know what you are going to get kind of guy than upside, and if I am drafting a guy this high, i'd rather know what to expect and take a high upside guy later in a draft.

Oh, I know what you were looking at. It's there. I'm just saying that after those years the last three have been almost seamless transitions from one level to the next. I will state that in 12 team leagues I also will wait on this position. In deeper leagues I am more likely to grab a top guy early if I think the draft dynamics provide the opportunity. I would say this has been one of the bigger changes in my approach since I became a Mastersball member. I feel like I have gotten much better at taking a fluid approach to any draft I am in, not locking myself into any pre-conceived decisions. So I guess what I'm saying is if I go for a Top 5 C this year, Santana is my target. If he doesn't fit my plan or draft - I will gladly move on to plan B or C at the position.

[Mickey4081]

1. Mauer- is there another threat for a .340 15 90 90 out there at the lowly catchers position? An annual threat for the batting title.

2. Victor- Won't argue with some who take Victor's power over Mauer.

3. Posey- Hard to put him over McCann but the kid could post .280 25 85 80

4. McCann- Now entering his prime, all he has to do is lift a few more balls and you'll be looking at .280 25-30 90 80. I don't think we've seen the best form Brian McCann just yet.

5. Napoli- 25-30 hr's seems like a lock.

6. Weiters- I'll take a chance on someone with a little more experience at the show over a rookie.

7. Santana- I'm not a big fan of drafting rookies, but, at the catchers position he may very well be worth a reach.

8. Soto

9. Suzuki- Solid, reliable numbers.

10. Pierzynski- Hitting at The Cell in pretty good offesive lineup can only help AJ post .280 12 55 60

11. Arencibia

12. Montero

[Captain Hook]

Here is my Personal list as of today for Catchers

1) Joe Mauer
2) Victor Martinez
Though if Mauer continues to have single digit HR production this might change next year
3) Brian McCann
4) Buster Posey
5) Mike Napoli
The move to Texas should help Napoli with both HR and RBI; Posey is the real deal and may challenge for the number one spot next year
6) Carlos Santana (assuming he can stay healthy all year)
7) Miguel Montero
8) Kurt Suzuki
9) Jorge Posada
10) Geovany Soto
Posada qualifying at catcher but having less wear and tear is a good offensive play
11) Matt Wieters
12) Yadier Molina
I think Wieters will improve this year but not sure how much; I like Yadier because there is no BA drain and he adds a few SB.....Pierzynski and the underrated Carlos Ruiz just miss

[aburt19]

Victor Martinez went to Detroit, not Chicago. Thus the effects of his move to Detroit may be detrimental due to the
effects of his home park.

Yes, but his move from a C who plays some 1B/DH to a 'full-time' DH who Catches 1 or 2 days a week will create many more ABs and lower his injury risk (further increasing his AB potential). Isn't this 1 of the classic 'sneaky' moves in fantasy baseball?? Finding a guy eligible at C who actually plays every day at another position??

While DET is not a hitter's haven, 100 more ABs in a season will off-set that by a considerable margin.

When I finally get around to posting my player rankings, I too will have VMart #1.

The last three seasons, VMart has had 84 AB with a .226 BA and no home runs at Detroit. If 2007 is included he has 154 AB
with a .233 BA and 8 home runs (all hit in 2007).

I'm not saying that he's going to be a bust. I'm not even saying that he shouldn't be second on the list (I do AL only and
he certainly is at least second in the AL). But the ballpark at Detroit has had a negative effect on him.

ETA: He does get one advantage. He gets to hit in 18 games against Royals and Indians pitching.

[AllstonRockCity]

The last three seasons, VMart has had 84 AB with a .226 BA and no home runs at Detroit. If 2007 is included he has 154 AB
with a .233 BA and 8 home runs (all hit in 2007).

I'm not saying that he's going to be a bust. I'm not even saying that he shouldn't be second on the list (I do AL only and
he certainly is at least second in the AL). But the ballpark at Detroit has had a negative effect on him.

ETA: He does get one advantage. He gets to hit in 18 games against Royals and Indians pitching.

So, he had 70 ABs in DET in 07?? how is that possible??

either way that sample size is too small to draw any real conclusions from.

I stand by the increase in ABs far overcoming the negative park effects, but as has been said before, this would be a boring game if we all valued players the same.

[AllstonRockCity]

1 VMart - I don't see anyone on this list topping his AB total this year
2 Mauer - i don't see more than 450 AB negating some of the value of his AVG
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3 McCann - solid
4 Posey - could be top tier next year, i want to see 1 more season 1st
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5 Santana - similar to Posey but some injury concern
6 Soto - shoulder worries me a bit
7 Weiters - hitting at the bottom of that good lineup should be just what the doctor ordered for him to meet his expectations
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8 Suzuki - i like him slightly more than the next guy and the most in this tier for his ABs
9 Montero - will most likely hit in a key spot in that lineup
10 Posada - my concern is that not even being the DH will stop the physical breakdown, could provide 2nd tier value
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11 Buck
12 Ianetta
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AJP, Yadier, Olivo

[deansdaddy]

bump

[Bodhizefa]

I hate catchers. Yuck!

1) Buster Posey - I love him. I'm buying. Big-time.
2) Joe Mauer - That power sure came back to earth, didn't it.
3) Victor Martinez - Detroit's park and line-up simply isn't as nice as Boston's. But he's still darned good.
4) Carlos Santana - I actually like him as much as Posey longterm, but I figure the Indians limit his time a bit after the knee injury. Also, being on an awful hitting team in a tough park for hitters doesn't exactly help his cause.
5) Brian McCann - He's steady, although I don't think he'll ever be quite as good in fantasy as he is in real life (due to the walks).
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6) Mike Napoli - Yay Texas ballpark! Yay 20+ power! Yay rebound in batting average!
7) Jorge Posada - He'll have more at bats as the DH, and I think he still has plenty of life left in the bat. .260 with 20 homeruns, 65 Runs, and 80 RBI seems within reach if he can avoid injury.
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8) Geovany Soto - I'm a fan. Here's hoping he sees 120+ games this season as I think he's a great value pick at catcher.
9) Matt Wieters - WTF
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10) Miguel Montero - Montero's a good hitter if he can stay healthy. This is a great tier for good positive value to be unearthed, in my opinion.
11) Kurt Suzuki - He's a nice bouceback candidate. I like him for .260+ with 13-16 homers and 60+ Runs and RBI.
12) A.J. Pierzynski - He's still got some life left in the bat, and U.S. Cellular always helps.

Runner-Up: John Buck - Buck likes to suck. Yuck. I don't like him in Florida very much at all. Then again, most catchers suck. So here he is as the 13th man. I hate catchers.
Steer Clear: Miguel Olivo - Safeco kills right-handed power. He'll be lucky to end up hitting .240 with 12 homers this year in Seattle, and that's assuming he's fully healthy, too.