Halladay and "lethargic" usually don't go together. Usually a veteran getting beat up in the spring is just brushed off, but in Halladay's case, probably just adds more uncertainty to whether he is really healthy or not.
Philly insisting he's healthy doesn't mean anything.
Halladay will definitely be one of the interesting picks as everyone enters their most important drafts over the next 2 weeks. A little less than 3 weeks to opening day!
Roy Halladay's velocity
-
AllstonRockCity
Re: Roy Halladay's velocity
The report I posted reminds me SO much of the reports we were seeing 1 year ago.
Those who do not remember the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them, or something like that.
Those who do not remember the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them, or something like that.
-
AllstonRockCity
Re: Roy Halladay's velocity
It just keeps getting better and better.
If I still played in leagues that use the NL, he would be on my 'do not draft' list
Phillies | Roy Halladay may not be ready
Tue, 19 Mar 2013 14:43:34 -0700
Philadelphia Phillies SP Roy Halladay (illness) may not be ready for the start of the season.
If I still played in leagues that use the NL, he would be on my 'do not draft' list
Phillies | Roy Halladay may not be ready
Tue, 19 Mar 2013 14:43:34 -0700
Philadelphia Phillies SP Roy Halladay (illness) may not be ready for the start of the season.
Re: Roy Halladay's velocity
It's pretty clear that Halladay is not healthy, despite Philly's insistance that he is. It's spring training, so if he really had a stomach virus, you scratch him and start him whenever he feels better, not pitch him an inning and then take him out.
The last 2 weeks of events and the conclusion in my mind that he still isn't healthy made my decision for me. I wouldn't say he's on my "do not draft" list, but he has taken quite a step down on my list. At some point everyone is draftable, and as you get to the 2nd half of a 28-30 player draft, Halladay's pedigree makes him a decent risk to take because you can sit him on the bench or even drop him without the consequences to your team of an early selection. The upside if he does get healthy is greater the lower he is taken since he doesn't have to be close to the dominant Halladay of old to be worth it. My guess is he'll be gone in most drafts before then and I won't have to worry about it.
Mark
The last 2 weeks of events and the conclusion in my mind that he still isn't healthy made my decision for me. I wouldn't say he's on my "do not draft" list, but he has taken quite a step down on my list. At some point everyone is draftable, and as you get to the 2nd half of a 28-30 player draft, Halladay's pedigree makes him a decent risk to take because you can sit him on the bench or even drop him without the consequences to your team of an early selection. The upside if he does get healthy is greater the lower he is taken since he doesn't have to be close to the dominant Halladay of old to be worth it. My guess is he'll be gone in most drafts before then and I won't have to worry about it.
Mark
Re: Roy Halladay's velocity
It's not that he's not healthy, guys. He's old, and he can't get the same torque from his arm that he used to. It's not a secret, and this happens to most every pitcher that lives to see their mid-to-late 30's in the big leagues. He may have a bit of room to grow (maybe he can consistently put up 88-90mph), but what you're seeing is probably all that Halladay has left in the tank.
It reminds me of Mussina circa 2004. His velocity was down and he wasn't producing like normal, and people said he might be hurt. But no, it was just age catching up with him. Moose learned how to pitch with his "new" stuff and became as useful a pitcher as he possibly could, and that's my guess as to what Halladay will do as well. He won't be worthless in fantasy, but his K's will drop and his ERA and WHIP will decidedly rise so he's nowhere near an ace any longer. I think he'll eventually settle into a fantasy #3 or #4 (probably a four as he'll likely have trouble with homeruns this year like he's never had before), and there's even a shot he'll be a great trade target if he starts the year getting shelled while he's still adjusting to his new velocity.
It reminds me of Mussina circa 2004. His velocity was down and he wasn't producing like normal, and people said he might be hurt. But no, it was just age catching up with him. Moose learned how to pitch with his "new" stuff and became as useful a pitcher as he possibly could, and that's my guess as to what Halladay will do as well. He won't be worthless in fantasy, but his K's will drop and his ERA and WHIP will decidedly rise so he's nowhere near an ace any longer. I think he'll eventually settle into a fantasy #3 or #4 (probably a four as he'll likely have trouble with homeruns this year like he's never had before), and there's even a shot he'll be a great trade target if he starts the year getting shelled while he's still adjusting to his new velocity.
I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft! We used to roast Stay-Puft marshmallows, by the fire, at Camp Waconda.
-
IronMarshal
Re: Roy Halladay's velocity
I live in the Philly area. Doc was interviewed the other day and he was talking like a guy who knows his fastball is gone. He was talking about working with what he has, and learning to pitch differently. One major problem I see is that the difference between his changeup and his fastball is not as great as it once was. That could really cause problems as there has to be a significant difference between the two pitches for the change to be really effective.
His pinpoint control has become an issue too, with tghe drop in velocity, the ball does not finish in the same location as it did before. Simple physics. This is an area where he probably can make adjustments to correct it.
Another issue may be movement on his fastball with the loss of velocity, the ball may not move as effectively as it once did.
Bottom line, I don't think Doc is going to have anywhere near the fantasy value he used to have. He may be able to adjust to a level of wily veteran who can win and have a good, not great, WIP and ERA. But his Ks will be down. And Todd is right about the IPs and their effect on all of the stats, not just the counting stats.
His pinpoint control has become an issue too, with tghe drop in velocity, the ball does not finish in the same location as it did before. Simple physics. This is an area where he probably can make adjustments to correct it.
Another issue may be movement on his fastball with the loss of velocity, the ball may not move as effectively as it once did.
Bottom line, I don't think Doc is going to have anywhere near the fantasy value he used to have. He may be able to adjust to a level of wily veteran who can win and have a good, not great, WIP and ERA. But his Ks will be down. And Todd is right about the IPs and their effect on all of the stats, not just the counting stats.
-
AllstonRockCity
Re: Roy Halladay's velocity
Sadly, another great career has come to an end
Phillies | Roy Halladay headed for DL
Sun, 05 May 2013 20:36:08 -0700
Philadelphia Phillies SP Roy Halladay (shoulder) was pounded for nine runs in just 2 1/3 innings Sunday, May 5, in a loss against the Miami Marlins. After the game, Halladay informed the team that he has pain in the shoulder. General manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said Halladay will likely undergo diagnostic tests sometime this week in California where the team opens a three-game set in San Francisco. Halladay said the plan is to meet with renowned Dr. Lewis Yocum. He said the pain in his shoulders started after his April 24 start. "I woke up, didn't really think anything of it, just regular soreness, it just kind of progressed over the last two weeks or so," Halladay said.
Phillies | Roy Halladay headed for DL
Sun, 05 May 2013 20:36:08 -0700
Philadelphia Phillies SP Roy Halladay (shoulder) was pounded for nine runs in just 2 1/3 innings Sunday, May 5, in a loss against the Miami Marlins. After the game, Halladay informed the team that he has pain in the shoulder. General manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said Halladay will likely undergo diagnostic tests sometime this week in California where the team opens a three-game set in San Francisco. Halladay said the plan is to meet with renowned Dr. Lewis Yocum. He said the pain in his shoulders started after his April 24 start. "I woke up, didn't really think anything of it, just regular soreness, it just kind of progressed over the last two weeks or so," Halladay said.