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 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 4th, 2017, 12:54 pm 
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Look at it from this perspective ...forget Trout, Ramirez, any other names. Simply put, Player A is going to be 45 units per year if you are lucky. Player B is going to be 15 units per year and that's definite. From a roster management standpoint, is Player A going to give you three times the value of Player B? If you believe the answer to be yes, then the point is moot. However, if you don't believe that, then it is time to revisit Player B, especially if he comes with the possibility of additional roster flexibility down the road as opposed to Player A who will severely cramp that flexibility for the rest of this season.

What the other owner has to do in order to make the deal is not that important ...after all, HE'S the one that offered and you are most likely going to drop whoever else is included with Player B in order to reap the benefits of that roster flexibility.

I'd talk that owner now and say I'd like to do this deal and put it in place effective this coming Monday with one condition .... I need the right to cancel it before 1st pitch Monday. If Owner D doesn't bid, I'd make the deal ... if he DOES, I'd consider cancelling the deal for one more week (actually, I wouldn't. I'd make the deal in a New York minutes ... that's in there for your benefit.).

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These are my views based on my own opinions and observations - your mileage may vary.
"KNOW THY LEAGUE" - the Forum Funklord - 4/13/2009
"There is this incredible desire in the fantasy baseball/football/other world to create something out of nothing,
to produce insight where the simple will suffice, and that isn’t a good thing for everyone."
- Gary J blog 6/2/10


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 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 7th, 2017, 9:07 am 
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Soap Opera UPDATE......resumed trade talks with the Ramirez owner and even after he said he was available he got cold feet at the last second. Our trade deadline is this Sunday and I'll revisit our talks one more time.

Owner D spent 3 more units and is down to 57. Next highest has 44 but due to salary cap his max bid would be upper 30s. Next highest after that is 39. I'm still within 1 game of the 6th and final upper division playoff spot and face off an owner who I'm tied with. If I can't trade him this week I may have to hold onto Trout until I'm eliminated from playoff considerations. Pending something odd happening I don't see owner D spending down into the mid 40s. Maybe he's wanting to do the same with his $44 Donaldson.

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12 team AL only standard 5x5 H2H keeper league

C - Sanchez $4
1B/3B - C. Santana $14, M. Gonzalez $1, Frazier $22
2B/SS - Dozier $34, Beckham $3, Gregorius $9
OF - Calhoun $25, Trout $53, Mancini $9, Haniger $10, T. Hernandez $1
UT - Bird $1
SP - Kluber $35, Quintana $22, McHugh $3, Montgomery $5
RP - Brach $4, Treinen $1, Green $1, Chapman $21, Musgrove $8
Bench - Rodon $3, Vincent $1, Seth Smith $4, Kepler $1


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 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 8th, 2017, 11:59 am 
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Location: Yellow Springs, Ohio
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I love this thread.

Two questions: If no one has done this in 20 years why do you think anyone else has an inkling of your scheme?

Second, not knowing your league, can you trade FAAB? I presume not since you seem sure of people's limits.

Keep the faith, it's not the last minute until the last minute.

TB

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10 team AL only. 4x4 with strikeouts. No drops without DL or Minors. Can keep 5 up to 3 years if $10 or under.
C: S. Perez - $12, B. Maxzwell - N/A 1B: J. Smoak - N/A 2B: B. Dozier - $31 SS: C. Correa - $1 3B: A. Bregman - $1
CI: E. Hosmer - N/A MI: J. Polanco - $11
OF: K. Davis - $29, E. Rosario - $1, R. Davis - $9, M. Trumbo - $30, G. Springer - N/A
SP: D. Keuchel - N/A, C. Corrasco - $30, B. Snell - $1, J. Verlander - N/A, C. Kluber - N/A, B. Norris - N/A
RP: K. Giles - N/A, K. Herrera - N/A
Minors: K. Zimmer, M. Manning, L. Giolito, J. Lowe, L. Taveras


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 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 8th, 2017, 1:27 pm 
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Tampa Bob wrote:
I love this thread.

Two questions: If no one has done this in 20 years why do you think anyone else has an inkling of your scheme?

Second, not knowing your league, can you trade FAAB? I presume not since you seem sure of people's limits.

Keep the faith, it's not the last minute until the last minute.

TB

Hey Bob ...long time no read. The reason someone may suspect is because he's CubFan. Sound simplistic? Allow me to explain; He and I have had numerous discussions over the years about his penchant for trying to serve two masters simultaneously ..He likes to have his cake and eat it too ... and he freely admits to doing it consciously. ...now if I know this and I picked it up just from our conversations on these boards, it seems that people who have been playing in this league for a while and who have had more interaction with him that I, will know about the trait as well. With THAT in mind, how does he explain the Trout pick up at the salary he picked him up at to his league mates? Does he need him for this year ...as he said, trying to squeeze into the last 2017 playoff spot ... so, no ...not really. Does he want him for next year? Oh yes ... but at 45 units ...not 50 or more. So, if he picks him up, but doesn't trade him by Sunday ...what's left as alternatives?

In his case, it's not so much trading FAAB but getting the total salary under the 310 unit hard cap. 50 units screw him ... but this owner D can go 50 and not break a sweat fitting Trout under the cap for 2018 ... and if Trout's still on CubFan's roster on Monday? it is what the philosophers call a delicate situation.

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These are my views based on my own opinions and observations - your mileage may vary.
"KNOW THY LEAGUE" - the Forum Funklord - 4/13/2009
"There is this incredible desire in the fantasy baseball/football/other world to create something out of nothing,
to produce insight where the simple will suffice, and that isn’t a good thing for everyone."
- Gary J blog 6/2/10


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 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 8th, 2017, 4:54 pm 
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Posts: 902
Preferred Style: AL only 5x5 H2H & rotisserie keeper auctions
Tampa Bob wrote:
I love this thread.

Two questions: If no one has done this in 20 years why do you think anyone else has an inkling of your scheme?

Second, not knowing your league, can you trade FAAB? I presume not since you seem sure of people's limits.

Keep the faith, it's not the last minute until the last minute.

TB


Hi Bob! Where ya been? Missed reading your posts. We seemed to have alot in common in our teams. You always had some interesting and insightful comments. Don't be a stranger to the board.

As to your questions.....
1) Two years ago an owner (Owner C who currently has 44 units of FAAB left but has a team salary of $290...salary cap is 310) did this with Springer and Carlos Gomez. He got them for $13 and $8 respectively. Her did it in early Sep. That year 8 of the 12 owners had ZERO FAAB left when he did it. He had the hammer. No one else had ever tried this before with high profile players mainly because enough owners had too much FAAB left towards the end of the year.

2) We can't trade FAAB.

_________________
12 team AL only standard 5x5 H2H keeper league

C - Sanchez $4
1B/3B - C. Santana $14, M. Gonzalez $1, Frazier $22
2B/SS - Dozier $34, Beckham $3, Gregorius $9
OF - Calhoun $25, Trout $53, Mancini $9, Haniger $10, T. Hernandez $1
UT - Bird $1
SP - Kluber $35, Quintana $22, McHugh $3, Montgomery $5
RP - Brach $4, Treinen $1, Green $1, Chapman $21, Musgrove $8
Bench - Rodon $3, Vincent $1, Seth Smith $4, Kepler $1


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 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 8th, 2017, 5:23 pm 
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da_big_kid_94 wrote:
Hey Bob ...long time no read. The reason someone may suspect is because he's CubFan. Sound simplistic? Allow me to explain; He and I have had numerous discussions over the years about his penchant for trying to serve two masters simultaneously ..He likes to have his cake and eat it too ... and he freely admits to doing it consciously. ...now if I know this and I picked it up just from our conversations on these boards, it seems that people who have been playing in this league for a while and who have had more interaction with him that I, will know about the trait as well. With THAT in mind, how does he explain the Trout pick up at the salary he picked him up at to his league mates? Does he need him for this year ...as he said, trying to squeeze into the last 2017 playoff spot ... so, no ...not really. Does he want him for next year? Oh yes ... but at 45 units ...not 50 or more. So, if he picks him up, but doesn't trade him by Sunday ...what's left as alternatives?

In his case, it's not so much trading FAAB but getting the total salary under the 310 unit hard cap. 50 units screw him ... but this owner D can go 50 and not break a sweat fitting Trout under the cap for 2018 ... and if Trout's still on CubFan's roster on Monday? it is what the philosophers call a delicate situation.


Kid....glad you don't play in our league. You've had me pegged for awhile. Sometimes it's worked out serving two masters, a few times I've had the cake smashed in my face.

This possible gambit is only possible this year because it's Trout and his high salary. At our auctions there have only been 3 owners who have been willing to bid him into the 50s. I think I did a reasonable job of explaining my faux reason to the handful of owners who wondered why I picked up Trout when I did. It actually backfired to some degree for me as my initial intention was to tread water (try to go .500) until Trout came back and be in the first division playoffs. As that failed I switched course to get Trout back in the 40s. Then something odd happened, I won the last two weeks and now stand one game out of the upper division playoffs.

TODAY....to add more drama to this saga the Ramirez owner came calling back. His SP (Felix and Price) joined the DL bandwagon and he's willing to deal Ramirez but wants the kitchen sink, my first born and my left n&t. He's offered Mallex Smith, Ramirez (has to be signed to a contract), Devon Travis $3, Price $18, Felix and Gordon for my Kluber $35, Trout and Didi $9. Ouch. I planned on keeping Didi $9 for next year and possibly even Kluber (elite SP was bid up this year....seems our league has mimicked the real world). The only guy I'd defintiely keep for 2018 from his bag of players is of course Ramirez, possibly Price if his elbow checks out and Travis if he looks healthy next year.

My H2H oppenent for this week is tied with me. There are two owners tied for the the 6th playoff spot with 9-8 records. I'm at 8-9. There are 4 weeks left before the playoffs start. If I lose this week I'm pretty much toast for this year. The Ramirez owner is pushing to get this deal done ASAP.

Thought of countering with Dozier $34, Trout $53 and McHugh $3 for his group of players. Part of me says "what the heck, I've come this far, might as well see it through." But then there's this little voice in my ear (we'll call him big kid) saying "take the bird in the hand. You could get left out in the cold if Owner D decides to bid $50."

Thoughts?

In edit.....he just texted and wants an answer or he's ready to pull the trigger on another deal. Hmmm

_________________
12 team AL only standard 5x5 H2H keeper league

C - Sanchez $4
1B/3B - C. Santana $14, M. Gonzalez $1, Frazier $22
2B/SS - Dozier $34, Beckham $3, Gregorius $9
OF - Calhoun $25, Trout $53, Mancini $9, Haniger $10, T. Hernandez $1
UT - Bird $1
SP - Kluber $35, Quintana $22, McHugh $3, Montgomery $5
RP - Brach $4, Treinen $1, Green $1, Chapman $21, Musgrove $8
Bench - Rodon $3, Vincent $1, Seth Smith $4, Kepler $1


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 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 8th, 2017, 7:26 pm 
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Wow ...the Cal Worthington method of negotiation. Not only does he want Trout, but he wants him at a devalued price and he thinks that drek is worth Trout, Kluber AND Didi??!?!? And he wants YOU to bail him out of HIS problem??? I would simply ask him what the color of the sky is in his world? It's MIKE FRIGGIN' TROUT! Not Mike Tilapia or Mike Flounder! Tell him to go make his deal (which I think is a bluff - if that's want he wants from YOU, what's he gonna want from some other poor slob!?!?). Tell him when he wants to talk reality, let you know and you'll talk. And he just might be guessing what you have in mind for Trout and figures he's got you over a barrel if you have to move him by Sunday.

Don't counter. remember ...you're trading for PLAYER ...not PLAYERS.

Edit; just thought of something - just for shiggles, try this ... tell him his offer is good enough for Didi and Kluber but not for Trout too. Two sore armed pitchers and two OF with no guaranteed job in 2018 - that gets you two ...but not Trout. He needs an arm more than Trout. If he bites, then you do the FAAB gambit with Trout. May wind up having your cake and eating it too. Or he may come back down to Planet Earth on his offer.

_________________
These are my views based on my own opinions and observations - your mileage may vary.
"KNOW THY LEAGUE" - the Forum Funklord - 4/13/2009
"There is this incredible desire in the fantasy baseball/football/other world to create something out of nothing,
to produce insight where the simple will suffice, and that isn’t a good thing for everyone."
- Gary J blog 6/2/10


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 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 10th, 2017, 7:06 am 
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And right now someone is praying like hell; "Take Jay Bruce ...bid Jay Bruce .... puhleeeeze take Jay Bruce."

_________________
These are my views based on my own opinions and observations - your mileage may vary.
"KNOW THY LEAGUE" - the Forum Funklord - 4/13/2009
"There is this incredible desire in the fantasy baseball/football/other world to create something out of nothing,
to produce insight where the simple will suffice, and that isn’t a good thing for everyone."
- Gary J blog 6/2/10


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 10th, 2017, 10:51 am 
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Preferred Style: AL only 5x5 H2H & rotisserie keeper auctions
da_big_kid_94 wrote:
And right now someone is praying like hell; "Take Jay Bruce ...bid Jay Bruce .... puhleeeeze take Jay Bruce."


:lol: And bid $20+ for him.

Here's the latest. Liked your last idea so much that after the Ramirez owner had text me again and wanted an answer on his version of the deal that I countered with Kluber, Beckham and Seth Smith for either Price or Felix plus Gordon and Ramirez. Told him no way would I give up both Trout and Kluber in this deal. Of course he balked and said he had to have both. I offered to swap in Dozier and take back both Price and Felix to balance the salaries. He didn't like that so he said he'd pursue his other trade. So we ended our talks.

Here is where it becomes a bit of a soap opera. Sensing I knew who the other owner was and which player(s) the Ramirez owner wanted I contacted the third owner and asked if Danny Salazar was still available (he was on the trade block several weeks ago). The two had talked but hadn't finalized anything. He was still listening to offers. So, I threw out an offer. Not that I think I have a good chance of getting him but maybe I can drive up the price that the Ramirez owner has to give up. Am currently waiting to hear back.

_________________
12 team AL only standard 5x5 H2H keeper league

C - Sanchez $4
1B/3B - C. Santana $14, M. Gonzalez $1, Frazier $22
2B/SS - Dozier $34, Beckham $3, Gregorius $9
OF - Calhoun $25, Trout $53, Mancini $9, Haniger $10, T. Hernandez $1
UT - Bird $1
SP - Kluber $35, Quintana $22, McHugh $3, Montgomery $5
RP - Brach $4, Treinen $1, Green $1, Chapman $21, Musgrove $8
Bench - Rodon $3, Vincent $1, Seth Smith $4, Kepler $1


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 Post subject: Re: Trading for Trout straw-man scenario
PostPosted: August 11th, 2017, 7:36 am 
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IF there's another owner.

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These are my views based on my own opinions and observations - your mileage may vary.
"KNOW THY LEAGUE" - the Forum Funklord - 4/13/2009
"There is this incredible desire in the fantasy baseball/football/other world to create something out of nothing,
to produce insight where the simple will suffice, and that isn’t a good thing for everyone."
- Gary J blog 6/2/10


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